It looks Obvious - Latest Comments in Different Aspects of Freedom

Re: Different Aspects of Freedom

mosif — Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:08:17 -0000

Social life is indeed complex and fluid. I think we both agree on that. My question was defenetly not theoretical. In fact, I don't really like theoretical discussions (not that i don't enjoy them every once in a while, with a respectable oponent such as yourself). However, most of the time I try to focus on the here and now and on the current limitations we face as citizens of modern-west. It's not as fun, but it helps me keeping my optimism and naive faith in society.

Re: Different Aspects of Freedom

Rogel — Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:14:51 -0000

I'm struggling with this question for the longest time, and I don't have perfect answer. However, I will try my best here. I do not object classifications what I object is the implications of classifications in the current political situation. People have the right, and they use it, to classify themselves in many ways. However I do not think that the fact that someone is Jewish, Reform and belong to Jazz club should be effect on the political system.

The nation state concept is new concept and was developed basically in the last 200-300 years.In fact the nation state is a fluid and unclear concept as it can be, and it be come less clear as time pass.

But you didn't really ask a theoretical question, so I'll response to your underline trap. Jewish people had the right to classify themselves as a nation, and Palestinian people can classify themselves as a nation as well, And for historic reasons they had right on a small land called Israel. Ideally the state of Israel should give the same treatment to all of its citizens. there is a question of how the state protect the right of the Jews to live peacefully in Israel without being killed.

For me when ever I'm confronting a question of group Vs. the Individual the later is more important. States created to protect Human rights. Nation state is European concept which is going to be replaced by hopefully something better, what is that saying about Israel, I'm too afraid to think about that.

Re: Different Aspects of Freedom

mosif — Wed, 22 Feb 2006 12:19:29 -0000

Since nationality is the mother of all classifications, do you object the concept of nation state?

Re: Different Aspects of Freedom

Rogel — Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:54:36 -0000

No this is not what I was saying. what I was saying was that it is natural for politician, or political parties, to group our identities. In a way it is like managing Inventories.

However if we limits the effect of politician, or the governments administration, on our life we by definition limits the affect of this type of classification.

How relevant is sectorial party (like Shas) if it has no ability to give money? if the government doesn't give money to schools, etc. the identification grouping that parties, like Shas, naturally enjoy from has no meaning.

Re: Different Aspects of Freedom

mosif — Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:40:50 -0000

what does the effect of this identification on our political life refers to?
do you mean that identities politics (a political party like Shas) should be limited and even banned, or that identities (national, religious etc.) should not take a part in politics?